Trust, Trauma and Transparency: Behind the Badge of Modern Policing | With Kiki Cloutier of the Police Association of Ontario

00;00;00;06 - 00;00;08;14
Kiki Cloutier
Our member associations and police services across Ontario have done a really good job at quickly adapting to the rapidly changing media landscape. Many now

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Kiki Cloutier
invest heavily in digital communications, social media and direct member updates. I will say also to video has been incredibly powerful, I think, for capturing the work that police do as well as the authenticity behind it.

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Kiki Cloutier
So from a police services perspective, there are some examples that I like to shout out for sure. So services have been sharing drone footage so on social media showing how they're combatting crime every day. So I found these really great

00;00;41;10 - 00;01;06;13
Tim Conrad
Communication is critically important to law enforcement in their daily operations. Their communication may include children, adults, people who want them to be there and people who do not. Here in Canada, they even have to deal with wildlife like bears that show up and aren't welcome. When we go more strategically, please can be found in front of media and crowds leading public education around threats to safety or explaining active investigations.

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Tim Conrad
The Police Association of Ontario is made up of 33,000 officers across 46 member associations. They are focused on creating a safer, more supportive environment for those who protect communities every day. Kiki Cloutier is their director of communications and public Affairs. She leads their communications and public affairs work, supporting advocacy efforts and helping to advance key priorities on behalf of members.

00;01;28;18 - 00;01;50;09
Tim Conrad
She works closely with member associations to amplify shared messaging and foster a unified voice for police personnel across Ontario. Kiki also oversees media relations, stakeholder engagement, and public facing initiatives, while also providing strategic support to the president and board. I'm your host, Tim Conrad. Welcome to the Wildfires, Floods and Chaos Communications podcast with guest Kiki Cloutier.

00;01;50;12 - 00;02;13;10
Tim Conrad
Police have certainly been through a rough time in the last decade. There have been protests to defund law enforcement, brutal and tragic deaths of officers on the job. Rising mental health concerns among officers and targeted violence towards police. And at the same time, there has been inappropriate behavior by officers on the job, with some going from finding criminals to becoming one.

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Tim Conrad
So here's police chief from Ottawa with a statement on June 15th, 2026, where he says, change your behavior or quit.

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Eric Stubbs
I want to have a serious and an uncomfortable conversation with all of you. Change your behavior now or quit. Leave. Members are using our databases as their own way to meet women. Seeing a woman at a coffee shop, coming out of a gym, driving next to them, getting their license plates and running them on the system. We've seen members messaging vulnerable victims on calls that they've attended, an attempt to develop an intimate relationship.

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Eric Stubbs
There's a clear need for OPS leadership to acknowledge that this issue remains present, and to speak openly about it. Silence or minimization only allows the behavior to continue.

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Tim Conrad
I'm curious what is being done to ensure police can be trusted.

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Kiki Cloutier
You know, the recent Ottawa police chief video is a good example of the complexities of public trust, for sure. It was originally sent as an internal

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Kiki Cloutier
memo, but only select portions of it were released to the media. And in my view, to be honest with you, once the memo video was released, the entire video should have been released to ensure that it provided the media with the full context to prevent misinterpretation.

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Kiki Cloutier
So one key point that I think was missed in the public discussion in the size of this is the size and diversity of the Ottawa Police Service, which includes over

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Kiki Cloutier
2000 sworn and civilian members. So while these accusations referenced in the video were deeply disturbing, they relate to a very small minority within the service and the overwhelming majority of officers and staff

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Kiki Cloutier
that come to work every day with integrity and dedication were not represented in that.

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Kiki Cloutier
So I think where the chief's statement fell short was painting the entire service with the same brush, rather than recognizing that thousands of committed professionals are doing it right. Of course, there's also a county at every letter, A level here, and this includes leadership. So especially from the chief who has been at the helm for nearly four years.

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Kiki Cloutier
So he is responsible responsible for setting the tone and the culture of the organization. So I do think there needed to be some inward

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Kiki Cloutier
looking there as well.

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Tim Conrad
Yeah. That's true. Balancing this out with what you say publicly and what you say internally. And of course, anything right now we say internally goes external much like this one did. So yeah, just,

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Tim Conrad
you know, kind of back to that. Like what are the programs to, to ensure that that police are being trusted.

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Kiki Cloutier
Yeah. So our association supports programs that ensure there's peer intervention accountability. And we also advocate for a fair and transparent process when it comes to

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Kiki Cloutier
investigating the series complaints. So in Ontario, we have many oversight bodies. If there's ever an issue where it needs to be reported, they can either go to the police, their police service, or they can go to another police service.

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Kiki Cloutier
And then it gets determined of what oversight agency handles it and how the investigation gets executed. And, you know, when these issues arise, we make sure our members do also have access to due process, like every Canadian citizen. But we also recognize that there's an important of holding police and police personnel to the highest standards because of the role that they have.

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Tim Conrad
We acknowledge and respect the Indigenous people on whose ancestral territories we work and play, whether the land is

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Tim Conrad
unceded or ceded. Your relationship with this land and your culture is one we admire. Wherever we are, we are committed to truth and reconciliation through regular, meaningful actions.

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Tim Conrad
we have to with people that we expect to trust. They have to be held to a higher standard and expect it to meet that at all times, which, you know, certainly is challenging in the work that that police do.

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Tim Conrad
police recently faced a targeted shooting in Montreal

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Tim Conrad
from an Alberta man who left a document outlining his incel views.

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Tim Conrad
So incel is short for involuntary celibate. It's a subset of the online misogynist manosphere. They're heterosexual men who blame women in society for their lack of romantic success, and some plan and commit violent acts now. And that included the 2018 van attack in Toronto, which killed 11 people in injured 15 more. The recent Montreal attacker encouraged violence attacks against

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Tim Conrad
police online in their posts that they had done, and then proceeded to hunt down and kill one police officer, as well as a bystander, which was captured in video.

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Tim Conrad
Sadly, this was one of the. This

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Tim Conrad
is definitely one of the most dangerous parts of the job. It's unique from firefighters and paramedics and and it means that they're likely the targets of violence. So what kind of internal communications happens in moments like the Montreal attack?

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Kiki Cloutier
Yeah, that's a really great question. And anyone who saw that video saw that it was deeply disturbing. And really, the first line of support comes from the police service to ensure all those that

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Kiki Cloutier
could be impacted are aware of the threat to member safety. And I think that always has to be the first priority. So those who are on the job are coming into their shift, that they're aware of the threat and that they have the proper supports in place.

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Kiki Cloutier
So from our end at the association, we ensure that the members receive the information so that there's any concern within their membership that they're fully aware of the situation at hand. When a tragedy like Montreal happens, our first priority as an association is also to the well-being of our members. So ensuring that the association executives have access to the resources that we have available to them, we immediately connect with the affected association and I should say association here in Ontario.

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Kiki Cloutier
We're governed under the Community Safety and Policing Act. So an association is the union and the broader

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Kiki Cloutier
membership to provide accurate information and support and resources as needed. So our association plays a critical role in really coordinating the peer support from other association executives, and for advocating for that long term mental health supports due to the unique risk our members face.

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Tim Conrad
Yeah. So very like extremely important that the work that is done there because, you know, it's a daily thing sadly, in this, this country and across the world, we're seeing unfortunately a little bit more of it happening. I've been to two friends funerals that were RCMP officers that were killed on the job. And so it's a tough reality of its out there.

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Tim Conrad
So what is being done to support officers mental health when these attacks happen? You know, both from the police association perspective but also what's what else is being done with it.

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Kiki Cloutier
Yeah, it's a really great point. And as you mentioned earlier, frontline police personnel, their exposure to trauma is very high compared to the general member of public. There's a, you know, a two pronged approach that I really see, maybe even three pronged. So of course there's a service. So the role that the service plays is really providing that operational support.

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Kiki Cloutier
So what it looks like in

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Kiki Cloutier
terms of training resources and the day to day ins and outs. So that comes from the service. The association which is the union representing them, ensures that those proper trainings and supports are there as well as offers their own level of support. So, for example, the Ontario Police Provincial Police Association, they have their own app and resources that their members can draw upon for mental health supports at the Police Association Ontario as well, we lean heavily to advocate to the Ontario government to ensure that there's proper coverage involved, and which also involves us, Ibi here in Ontario, that if an individual needs to go on leave or needs access

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Kiki Cloutier
to supports, that those are available

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Unknown
Mental well-being is something we all have a responsibility to ourselves to be aware of and to look for ways to improve through intentional actions, such as getting outside or seeking professional help. As a responder, consider taking mental health first aid, which has been very important for the work I do. Interacting with people during large emergencies from residents to responders.

00;10;02;05 - 00;10;16;19
Unknown
If you are an urgent need of help in Canada, dial or text 988. You deserve to be heard. They are there to listen. It is a safe spot to talk 24 hours a day, every day of the year. (Singing and drumming begins)

00;10;16;22 - 00;10;26;20
Tim Conrad
Yeah. That's great. And so, you know, when we look a little bit broader, the line of duty deaths happen not just from violence, but things like motor vehicle incidents are quite common. And I'm

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Tim Conrad
curious what that process is like when there's a nonviolent incident happened. How does that communications go about?

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Kiki Cloutier
Always our first point of communication as the association is we connect with the local association. So unfortunately, in Quebec earlier this spring, there was a death, a line of duty death that happened that was a motor vehicle collision. So we reach out to the local association and sure that they have the supports that are required to assist the family to get the communications out to the appropriate avenues and audiences from our end, we make sure our association executives are aware of the situation.

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Kiki Cloutier
We ensure that any information about the funeral or the services communicated out, because I will say the policing community shows up. They are very passionate about being there for their members and just recently attended my first regimental police funeral and I the the emotion and the the commodity that happens in those rooms is something I had never witnessed before.

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Kiki Cloutier
So we ensure that our members can go and they also participate from right across Canada, you know, even sometimes from internationally. So that's one thing that we ensure we do from an internal communications point of view. We make sure that we receive all the information and that is accurate. And the one thing I will say to you, and I think this really goes to when you're dealing with a situation as important as a line of duty to us, you know, behind every member is a family, and we want to ensure that the information that we're providing is after the family and the local association has approved, and that it's accurate information before we share it

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Kiki Cloutier
with our general membership. For sure.

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Tim Conrad
Going to those those regimental funerals, there are extremely difficult to go to having gone to two of them now. The first one I'll give, I will never forget the feeling of this. We were in the church, myself and my friends. So the the officer that was killed, Sergeant Derek

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Tim Conrad
Burkholder with the RCMP, and he was the father of two of my friends in high school.

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Tim Conrad
And so we went to the funeral and we were sitting there waiting for things to start. And then the march came up. And then when they stood at attention, you could feel it in the building. The entire building rattled right up through our bodies. And yeah, it's a it's I have to say that a beautiful job of, of, you know, giving honor to those that, that have lost their lives on the line and continue to do so.

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Tim Conrad
And I you know, I was just so thankful. Another colleague that we lost was Sergeant Dave Wynn and Constable Dave Wynn, 42, sorry. At his funeral I took up the back end of the parade and let's just say the tears were flowing because I was just so, so amazed with the amount of people that came. And I went and went through the crowd before to thank as many people as I could for coming.

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Tim Conrad
They were from all over the all over the world. It was really incredible. So I think that's very important for people to know they have that network out there to, to

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Tim Conrad
to support them.

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Kiki Cloutier
For sure. And at the Police Association Ontario, our president, president Mark Baxter, he strongly encourages the staff, when possible to attend these regimental funerals. I had

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Kiki Cloutier
a I had, as I mentioned, just attend my first one. It was OPP Constable Tarun Bali (29). So that was here in Ontario. And just the the march that led in, it was pouring rain and there was hundreds of and hundreds of officers from across the country and civilian members standing, attending to attention.

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Kiki Cloutier
And truly like you could just feel the impact that it had throughout the police and community. And when we went inside, Commissioner of the OP delivered the most beautiful address to the members and to everyone in attendance, as well as his wife. And you could just you could hear a pin drop. And I think that's incredibly important. And in today's day and age and strong communications, I think is something that people really appreciate.

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Kiki Cloutier
And having the moment to reflect and to pay respect

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Kiki Cloutier
was definitely valued.

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Tim Conrad
Yeah. You really picked up on one piece, which is the the beauty of silence and communicating in those moments. That's something you really capture.

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Kiki Cloutier
And even seeing the families behind it too, right? I think that's really important. And I know you deal with many, many welfare situations, but there's families behind this. They have kids, they've got pets, they've got individuals who rely on them. And I think that's incredibly important to remember.

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Tim Conrad
Those families are affected for a long time, I've known I'm still in touch with both of those families, and I've seen that over those years. And it's important that they continue to have that support. And and, you know, for those that are out there, continue to reach out to them, they really do appreciate it. But you see that impact.

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Tim Conrad
So yeah.

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Kiki Cloutier
For sure.

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Tim Conrad
so over to media. And it continues to dramatically shift with the decline and disappearance of traditional media. How are police changing and adapting to this?

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Kiki Cloutier
Our member associations and police services across Ontario have done a really good job at quickly adapting to the rapidly changing media landscape. Many now invest heavily in digital communications, social media and direct member updates. I will say also to video has been incredibly powerful, I think, for capturing the work that police do as well as the authenticity behind it.

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Kiki Cloutier
So from a police services perspective, there are some examples that I like to shout out for sure. So services have been sharing drone footage so on social media showing how they're combatting crime every day. So I found these really great social media posts

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Kiki Cloutier
and engaging video that they put out there. And it really shows the ins and outs of policing and the work that goes into catching these criminals.

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Kiki Cloutier
Right. So I think it gives people a little bit of a glimpse behind and humanizes the work that they do. I also recently saw Police Chief launch a podcast to provide a more informal way to share his thoughts on issues impacting their communities. So I thought that was also very cool to give a little bit of a glimpse directly into the chief's ideas and what he's thinking on certain issues, and almost provides that, like open door policy for the community to engage with their police chief.

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Kiki Cloutier
In terms of our members, we support them by providing them with social media and media training to really help them understand how to manage that public sphere, as well as ensuring that they have accurate information to counter misinformation. So if there's any situations where, say, for example, a member has died in the line of duty, we want to make sure that they have that information, that if they're communicating out to their membership, that it's correct and accurate and timely.

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Kiki Cloutier
And also here at the power, we produce our own content. So we're do videos, newsletters, we have a dispatch magazine. And we really use these channels to share our member stories directly with the public and our membership, and to really highlight the positive impacts of policing that we have in our communities in Ontario.

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Tim Conrad
I think it's really important to show the work that's being done and show the challenge of the work. At times, like you say, those drone videos and, you know, chasing down a criminal or trying to figure out what is going on in this situation, I certainly been part of that. As a fire service member. I've been involved with Swat a few times where I've had to.

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Tim Conrad
In one case, I was in bunker gear and walking up to a situation and I'm like, why does everybody else have body armor on? But I got bunker gear, so but it was it's it's fascinating work that police do. And yeah, we see media coming out to the more often. And and they they also have to correct info which is inaccurate more often.

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Tim Conrad
So talk about that a little bit.

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Kiki Cloutier
Yeah that's a really good point. One thing I do encourage our members to do all the time is to be open with media. I think that relationships with media need to be strong no matter what the situation is, and I think that allows for that trust and transparency to really flow. Unfortunately, I think to sometimes due to the shrinking newsrooms, people and journalists aren't assigned to beats.

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Kiki Cloutier
They're not assigned to certain sections like crime that they're only reporting on. Yeah. And providing that background information, I think is incredibly important. And I've been encouraging our members, and I've been really working with the Police Association of Ontario and our president when he is engaging with media as well. It's like, let's start with the background information of what's currently in place, what legislation that is, is being enacted and going through kind of the background of how we got to where we are, because unfortunately, some of the journalists and reporters don't have the time to do the research.

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Kiki Cloutier
So I've been saying to our members and to our president, who's our main spokesperson is first step is educate. So let's just level set and educate about what's currently there. And that really allows for us to get the conversation going to. And the second thing is to don't shy away from the media. I think it's important to engage with them, even if it's a tricky topic.

00;18;45;11 - 00;19;04;01
Kiki Cloutier
I think that there there has always been this kind of misconception that, you know, media out to get you. I think they're out there to have a conversation with you. Will the conversation get difficult? Yes, if the topic is lead you there. But I think that it's important to know that they're also human and they're trying to accomplish their job as well.

00;19;04;03 - 00;19;25;25
Tim Conrad
Absolutely. We need to lean into those tough questions that there are opportunities for us to to to teach and educate folks on, on different perspectives sometimes. And so this is something that's shifted in our business over the time that we've been in. We're a little seasoned in the, in the world. But that that journalists, when we were in used to know more about what we were doing than we did most of the time.

00;19;25;26 - 00;19;46;15
Tim Conrad
Right. And now we're having to do an education back, which is something we never really had to do long ago. But I'm just curious to like, this is this makes one of the challenges that that journalists want to get the information out quickly, right? They want to jump out and get it out there fast. But you folks like you like to do a little bit of a temperature check, and you want to sometimes hold on information until it's verified.

00;19;46;15 - 00;19;48;23
Tim Conrad
So give us a little bit on that.

00;19;48;26 - 00;20;04;19
Kiki Cloutier
So at the Police Association Ontario, we try to ensure that we when a media outlet reaches out or a journalist or reporter, we try and get back to them within 24 hours. Not even I'd say within two hours these days to ensure that they know that we are aware of the request and that we're looking into it, and then we'll get back to them shortly.

00;20;04;19 - 00;20;26;11
Kiki Cloutier
The other thing that we will do is we'll say to them, quite frankly, like this is the amount of information we have. We cannot provide you further information at this time because we don't have the final sign off. And as a person, you need to understand to that. There's families like say for example, Line of Duty, death. I would hate to provide the media with funeral information before it has been solidified with a family.

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Kiki Cloutier
And as a mother, if I found out my child's funeral, regimental funeral information through the media and not through the association leader, I would be incredibly disappointed. And I think we like that goes back to the human factor here. The journalist is human. The people we're dealing with are human. We always have to remember that. That's our core kind of foundation.

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Kiki Cloutier
And I've been really frank with them to like, here's what we can speak to at this point. We cannot speak to this because we are not able to. And I hope you understand that. And they have been incredibly respectful. I will say,

00;20;57;03 - 00;20;57;17
Kiki Cloutier
yeah.

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Tim Conrad
And yeah, that stretches right to, you know, victims of crime and things like that, that they've just had their privacy violated terribly. And, and they don't want just because an incident happened. They don't want somebody, you know, everything to go all over social media. They they didn't sign up for that. They already have a tragic situation to deal with.

00;21;14;28 - 00;21;16;26
Tim Conrad
So yeah, it's it's tough.

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Kiki Cloutier
You're right.

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Kiki Cloutier
Like with social media to image can gain legs. A quote can gain legs faster than you even know it. So being really crisp and clear about what you can and can't say is incredibly right, and also to protecting the right rights of victims for sure, is something we are always putting into consideration.

00;21;33;15 - 00;21;44;05
Tim Conrad
And a little bit more on the like how you're distributing that media, how what's going on. You talked about videos, there's a community events, maybe there's some other mediums. What what kind of distribution is happening there.

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Kiki Cloutier
Yeah. So social media channels is something that we rely heavily on in terms of getting information out to the public and the membership in terms of engaging with media. We do have, you know, in Ontario, we have our list of media that we navigate with throughout the year. And so we have those good connection points. If it's a hot topic or we know something's coming down the pipe, we offer background conversations with media to ensure that they have that information.

00;22;06;23 - 00;22;24;24
Kiki Cloutier
So, for example, if it's anything to do with the Community Safety and Policing Act, the Police Association was one of the key stakeholders at the table for that conversation and when it was solidified. So if we know there's going to be conversation on it, we'll say, hey, if you want more information on this or you want for us to explain it in plain language, we're available to help you.

00;22;24;28 - 00;22;40;26
Kiki Cloutier
We're also incredibly fortunate at the Police Association Ontario. We have a labor advisor and our legal counsel in-house. So if there's ever a situation where something is extremely complicated and needs to be explained, I work very closely with her in our office to ensure that media has the information, and it's digestible as well.

00;22;41;02 - 00;22;43;08
Tim Conrad
Time to thank you, my listeners and viewers.

00;22;43;10 - 00;23;09;17
Tim Conrad
You've been incredible over this past year. Many months have been the best so far and I am so thankful for you tapping into this content. You can find audio and video episodes at WWE Dot communications podcast Dot cooks Talab, which is thank you to more than one person in machine, the language of the Shuswap people, which is where we are based up to our audience in Argentina.

00;23;09;22 - 00;23;36;02
Tim Conrad
And thanks to our viewers and listeners in these communities Val d'Or, Quebec, Glen Allen, Alaska, Villa Adelina, Spain, and right in England and oh yeah, that way, that way or that way to get down to Colonia, British Columbia. Six continents have listened to the last five episodes, so thank you for joining me, even if it's just for that one episode, to learn and share a bit of that journey along with my guests.

00;23;36;04 - 00;23;51;14
Tim Conrad
While I have a great lineup of episodes in production, I always welcome more suggestions for topics, focus areas, and guests, cooks up for supporting me and being here for this journey. And now back to Kiki Cloutier with the Police Association of Ontario.

00;23;51;17 - 00;23;59;16
Tim Conrad
this brings us to measurements. And I'm curious what is used for measurement to ensure that communications and the programs that they're doing are effective.

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Kiki Cloutier
We use a variety of tools to really measure our impact. So this includes tracking our digital analytics. Of course, whenever we're doing a public facing campaign or even a member based campaign, social media engagement, media coverage to understand how our message is landing. So tone is something that we're incredibly cognizant of. We also conduct regular member surveys. So any association that's usually what they do to understand, you know, what our members are looking for, the level of knowledge they have on the different programs that we're delivering and their satisfaction.

00;24;24;20 - 00;24;43;22
Kiki Cloutier
That's always, you know, you're only as good as as the work that you provide. So we want to make sure that our members are happy and that they're getting the information, and they understand that we're advocating on their behalf and we're advocating on the right items as well. So really prioritizing what's important to them. Public opinion polling is also to something that we rely heavily on.

00;24;43;22 - 00;25;04;25
Kiki Cloutier
So to back our advocacy priorities not only with the Ontario government but with the federal government. So, for example, when we worked with the Ontario government and the federal government on bail reform for violent and repeat offenders, we included public opinion data fresh a public opinion data to support our recommendations. So we didn't just come to them and say, hey, the police association thinks this.

00;25;04;26 - 00;25;16;04
Kiki Cloutier
We said, hey, three quarters of Ontario's think this. So I think that's incredibly important as well, so that we're not just speaking on behalf of our membership, but we're saying this is an issue across your province and you should be aware of it.

00;25;16;07 - 00;25;23;00
Tim Conrad
It's so important to have that nice, strong key measurement that you can associate, especially when you're doing advocacy work. So wonderful work that you're doing there.

00;25;23;01 - 00;25;40;09
Kiki Cloutier
public opinion polling is like one of my favorite things because I always in my head think that I, I'm aware of this situation and I want to make sure that my assumptions are tested. Right. So it provides me with a little bit of a step outside my communications framework about what others think about the work that we're doing.

00;25;40;12 - 00;25;50;14
Tim Conrad
Yeah, I know that you, you and I share that that we we do lean heavily and we love polling. We love measurements. And and ensuring that we're staff work is is is having an impact. Right.

00;25;50;15 - 00;25;52;01
Kiki Cloutier
So for sure.

00;25;52;04 - 00;26;07;06
Tim Conrad
So over to public Affairs. This is you just brought that up. And it's an important part of the work with the Ontario Police Association. And tell us about the the Association and what their role is in public affairs and how it supports your members.

00;26;07;08 - 00;26;27;25
Kiki Cloutier
The Police Association Ontario is the unified voice for more than 33,000 frontline and civilian personnel. So as the Director of Public Affairs and communications, my role is really to represent the members interests. So that's providing them with accurate and timely information, supporting their advocacy and ensuring the voices are heard at all levels of government. Our primary focus is provincial.

00;26;27;26 - 00;26;45;00
Kiki Cloutier
Some of the work that we do is federal, based on the type of legislation that we're looking to be changed. And, you know, communications and public affairs is all about building relationships, telling our members stories out there and making sure our members have the support they need as well, and making those connection points. I think that's incredibly important.

00;26;45;00 - 00;27;05;23
Kiki Cloutier
And the work that we do, we also want to ensure that our members feel protected and valued. And we're incredibly fortunate. The Ontario government has a strong support for policing here. So we ensure that, you know, they get access to those government officials to ensure that their voices heard and that they also feel protected and valued both on the job and in the public.

00;27;05;26 - 00;27;21;12
Tim Conrad
I guess some of that, too, is like we see police officers showing up in ceremonial outfits for different events, and that's all part of that public affairs. Right? It's it's an important part. It's a relationship building an opportunity with with government officials that make decisions around these things.

00;27;21;15 - 00;27;22;25
Kiki Cloutier
You know, it's very interesting.

00;27;22;26 - 00;27;25;03
Kiki Cloutier
To just on a bit of a tangent here as well.

00;27;25;04 - 00;27;26;16
Kiki Cloutier
I think that the more.

00;27;26;21 - 00;27;50;19
Kiki Cloutier
That police are involved in communities in a positive way, the better, because it builds relationships before the crisis hits. Right. And we always say that in crisis communications, you want to have those relationships, you want to have that core foundation before the crisis hits. I'll give you two examples that I thought were incredibly impactful. I went to my daughter's funfair, and the community liaison support team was out from the Toronto Police Service, and they were engaging at the funfair.

00;27;50;19 - 00;28;05;21
Kiki Cloutier
And this was just an informal way. They're handing out stickers, junior officer stickers. My daughter thought it was great, but in this moment, you know, she's four years old. She's learning about the role that police officers play in her community. And when she needs them, she knows that she can go to them. She has that built out relationship.

00;28;05;21 - 00;28;27;13
Kiki Cloutier
She's not fearful of someone in uniform. Another one I just want to mention that actually happened yesterday. I was with our President Baxter, in his home service at Brantford, and there was three officers. They were getting their badge, so it was a badging ceremony. They just had become formal officers with the service. And one of them turned to President Baxter as he was, you know, congratulating them on their great achievement.

00;28;27;13 - 00;28;43;02
Kiki Cloutier
And he said, hey, guess what? He's like, yeah, he's like, I recognize you. And our president said, oh, from where? He said, you are my school resource officer. When I went to high school, did you work at North Park Collegiate? And just a look on the president's face. And he did work at North Park Collegiate as the school resource officer.

00;28;43;04 - 00;29;04;20
Kiki Cloutier
And just that full circle moment. So here's an officer. He has just his whole family's there watching. It was a fantastic moment, and I will say those moments to remind me of the work, the importance of the work that we do. But it was also a great connection point to really understand that it's all about relationships and how people engage with police at different parts of their lives.

00;29;04;23 - 00;29;20;09
Tim Conrad
Yeah, absolutely. It's so it's so true, as you're saying, that it recalled for me, officer, that I knew Al Cunningham, that that kind of took me under his wing when I was young. I want to bike at a bike fair one time, and he was the one that gave it to me. And then that started a relationship that's lasted a lifetime.

00;29;20;10 - 00;29;42;00
Tim Conrad
And yeah, it was kind of fun because he would sometimes pick me up and give me a drive and, and I'd get to see somebody doing something bad, and he dropped me out of the car. He's like, gotta run. And but it was it was really good. It gave me great insight and it came full circle later on in life that, you know, just a look one day was enough for me to know that we were I was in a situation that was kind of dangerous and you had to get out of it.

00;29;42;01 - 00;30;01;14
Tim Conrad
And so yeah, it's so it's so important. Those relationships with police I absolutely love, that was something that didn't exist when I was young too much. It was just kind of fluke that that happened. But how they these community policing programs, in doing that outreach, they have a very good impact at that young age, which is important.

00;30;01;17 - 00;30;10;22
Kiki Cloutier
For sure. And we're we've been very thankful. The Ontario government has been incredibly supportive, supportive of the school resource program here. And we work very closely with the Ministry of

00;30;10;22 - 00;30;16;02
Kiki Cloutier
Education on what that looks like in terms of the different programs and offerings without throughout Ontario.

00;30;16;04 - 00;30;44;05
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00;32;08;15 - 00;32;23;15
Tim Conrad
I have three kind of rapid fire questions for you that I ask every guest. And so we'll start off and and see what you got. So what is one book, documentary or resource that you recommend for those learning about communications or emergencies?

00;32;23;18 - 00;32;44;16
Kiki Cloutier
I'm currently halfway through the Director's Crisis Playbook, so it's a guide for directors who must lead with clarity, speed, and integrity when crisis strikes. It's a really great practical framework for what I've read so far. Really, it puts you in the right mindset for handling high pressure situations. So, Jamie, what is the author behind the book? Definitely someone known in the PR and communications space.

00;32;44;16 - 00;32;54;01
Kiki Cloutier
So he is truly shaped crisis communications here in Canada. And I know he's also influenced many communications professionals careers. So I encourage everyone to give it a read.

00;32;54;04 - 00;33;04;20
Tim Conrad
Great one. And what advice would you offer? Information officers, communicators or responders that are managing crisis or emergencies that would help them to perform their job more effectively?

00;33;04;22 - 00;33;25;23
Kiki Cloutier
See, the number one thing is prioritize accuracy over speed. So always verify the of the facts and be transparent about what you know. Don't underestimate the value of empathy either. And I know we've talked a bit about that today about just, you know, really connecting with the audiences. I think that's incredibly important. And also remember, you're often in your own echo chamber.

00;33;25;23 - 00;33;46;26
Kiki Cloutier
So this is something that I have, I discuss very frequently at the Police Association Ontario, is that when you're in a certain echo chamber, you you forget about the general public. You forget that people don't know exactly what's going on. So it's vital to check your messaging with someone who isn't entrenched in the issue to get their outside perspective and to avoid buying spots.

00;33;46;26 - 00;34;02;25
Kiki Cloutier
And that is one thing that I think that I brought to benefit of the Police Association Ontario. As you know, Tim, I didn't come from the policing sector. I came from PR and communications sector only. So there's many times where we'll be prepping for an interview and I'll be working with our president, and he'll say something and I'll be like that.

00;34;02;27 - 00;34;26;05
Kiki Cloutier
I didn't understand a word you just said. And he'll be like, how did you not understand that? I was like, well, there's about six acronyms in policing that I'm unaware of. And this is completely a different language to me. And he's like, oh my gosh, I didn't even realize that. So I think really checking with your spokesperson to to ensure that when they're delivering their messages that it's delivered in plain English and matches the audiences that you're reaching.

00;34;26;08 - 00;34;41;19
Tim Conrad
Yeah. And this is something I think if I can give one piece of advice to a police officers that you have to sort of hit that new switch every time you go on a different call and not bring the echo chamber from the last one forward. And I find that sometimes as a, as a thing that that is tough to do.

00;34;41;20 - 00;34;53;18
Tim Conrad
It gives you go from one to the other and it's like, oh, I just came from this situation and this. And they're still locked into the last one. So that's one thing that they can do. And I think it helps a lot when you can shift your brain that way, which is hard, I understand that.

00;34;53;21 - 00;35;11;17
Kiki Cloutier
you're so right, Tim. Like I was talking about bail reform too. And, you know, thankfully I've never been to jail. So when they were walking me through with the bail reform changes were needed, I was like, you're going to have to break this down a little bit further for the general public because many people in Canada haven't been to jail, and let's keep it that way.

00;35;11;20 - 00;35;18;12
Kiki Cloutier
Yeah. So like we have to ensure that we're using plain language and that we're, you know, as I mentioned, landing with the audiences.

00;35;18;15 - 00;35;24;28
Tim Conrad
And so the last question is, how do you maintain your mental well-being during the most intense moments?

00;35;25;01 - 00;35;47;05
Kiki Cloutier
I would say I lean on my support networks the hardest. So current and former colleagues shout out to my friends during my time at Ernst Cliff and who are currently still there. Of course our CPRS family too. I always say this all the time. Every job that I've had in this profession has been through CPS. At any time I could call a member and say, hey, do you have any information on this or do you have experience dealing with X or Y?

00;35;47;13 - 00;35;56;18
Kiki Cloutier
And that's a great thing about professional associations. And and you know, Tim, that's how we met and how we've continued to stay friends. I think it's incredibly important.

00;35;56;21 - 00;36;12;29
Tim Conrad
Yeah. It is. It's such a huge thing. We were talking about that a little bit as we were getting warmed up for the interview, how important it is to me in those moments. And it's amazing. The phone just rings and that they call. They know. They know that's the it's a family out there. So yeah. And we worked alongside each other.

00;36;13;02 - 00;36;25;09
Tim Conrad
Many years ago pulling together professional development for the CPR National Conference. So that's the Canadian Public Relations Society. Careers have shifted. And it's kind of cool to reconnect in other kinds of chaos. It is. Yeah.

00;36;25;11 - 00;36;25;24
Tim Conrad
And it is.

00;36;25;24 - 00;36;48;20
Kiki Cloutier
So funny how you meet the members along the way. I've had so many different moments where someone will say, hey, you're Facebook's recognizable. Did you go to Saint John's conference? And it's like, yeah, oh my goodness, how did you remember that was back in eight or whatever it was. So it's so fantastic. And I've had so many members reach out to me too, if they're looking for more information or they're looking for suppliers that are verified.

00;36;48;23 - 00;37;06;17
Kiki Cloutier
I've had individuals say, like, do you know any polling companies? Do you know any communications firms that sort of stuff. And I think it's incredibly important to remember that. And the mentorship piece. You know, I remember Sean Kelly, a former president of CPRS, said, you know, it's only as good as what you put into it. And I know that's a quote from another individual, but it's true.

00;37;06;17 - 00;37;13;29
Kiki Cloutier
The amount of work that I've put into CPS and I know, Tim, you've put into CPS, I've definitely pulled out equal value, but you have to continue to feed

00;37;14;01 - 00;37;25;02
Tim Conrad
Yeah you do. Yeah. Great family, great support network. And yeah, it's been great to reconnect with you again, Kiki. And thanks for joining me on the wildfires, Floods and Chaos Communications podcast.

00;37;25;04 - 00;37;27;09
Kiki Cloutier
Thanks so much for having me. It was a pleasure.

00;37;27;14 - 00;37;35;07
Tim Conrad
This episode matches well with episode 19 with Todd Livingston. What makes standardization so important for emergency management?

00;37;35;10 - 00;37;48;12
Tim Conrad
The wildfires, Floods and Chaos Communications podcast is a production of Butterfly Effect Communications. Copyright 2026. Thanks for tapping in. You keep watching and listening and I'll keep sending you good vibes. Goodbye. Hear me later.